Interview: Cao Shui - “A Poet Must Travel to the Back of the Earth at Least Once”

Cao Shui

You travel extensively for poetry festivals—from China to South America, Europe, Turkey, and Paris. How does it feel to live as a “poetry nomad”?

There is a Chinese saying that goes, 'Read ten thousand books, travel ten thousand miles.' This is a description of traditional Chinese intellectuals. For me, poetry and travel are both ways to pursue freedom and order, and combining them for a poetic journey is the most ideal. For me, traveling is about making poetry or literature "Incarnation". My four writing series are Kunlun Secret History series, Kekexili series, The tower of Babel series, and Local History series. In the Kunlun Secret History series, including the novel "Kunlun Secret History" and the epic "Epic of the Eurasia", the core viewpoint described in these books is that humans originated from the same place and will inevitably move towards the same place. The protagonist travels through the Five Sacred Mountains of China to reach the most sacred Mount Kunlun (Heaven). He sets off from Babylon, the former center of human civilization, heading west to Canaan, Egypt, and Greece, east to Persia, India, and China, and then arrives at the New World - America - from the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans respectively. I am traveling the world along this route.

How important do you think it is for poetry to travel across cultures and borders?

In the era of globalization, if one cannot transcend cultures and borders, then a poet can only be a poet of their own nation, and cannot be a poet of the world. We know that there are two hundred countries in the world, and traditionally most poets are in their own culture, which makes it difficult to see the world clearly and write world literature. In contemporary times, poets must transcend cultures and borders in order to understand their own culture and world culture. In 2007, when I was 24 years old, I wrote the "Manifesto of Grand Poetry", which systematically expounded the pursuit of literature. We know that the great German poet Goethe proposed the concept of "world literature" in 1827, but it has always been developed within one's own nation or language. The "World Poetry Movement" founded by Fernando Lund in 2011 was a revolutionary push. The concept of epic poetry comes from Indian epics. Later, Chinese poet Hai Zi vigorously advocated it, but we have a new interpretation. The core viewpoint is "unity of heaven and man", "integration of ancient and modern", and "combination of things". It is to create a "epic poetry" that integrates the cultures of various ethnic groups, rather than just a national literature. From the early days of Cao He, Xi Yuan, and Xi Di, Da Shi ism has swept across the country, especially in the "Debate of Cao Shui- Yi Sha", becoming a literary trend pursued and practiced by young Chinese poets. Its main members include Zhuang Ling, Han Bing, Lei Xun, Shen Jia, Shen Xue, Ye Mo, Shu Xian, Ying Zi, Su Ming, Yue Jian, Peng Shujin, Lei Xiaoming, Zhang Housheng, Xu Yanmu, Guo Liangzhong, Zhao Kangli, and others. Since 2017, we have embarked on the road of internationalization. Every year, we will award the Medal of the Great Poetry Movement. In 2023, the Medal will be awarded to the Türkiye poet Nurduran Duman, Haluk Sahin and the Kazakhstan poet Ulugbek Yesdaulet. The medals for the year 2024 were awarded to Colombian poet Fernando Rendon, American poet George Wallace, and Emirati poet Adel Khozam. The medals for the year 2025 will be awarded to Russian poet Vadim Terekhin, Venezuelan poet Ana Maria Oviedo, and French poet Francis Combes. Nowadays, the theory of grand poetry has been introduced in many countries, and I think it is gradually becoming a global trend. My inspiration for writing in English is that crossing cultures requires language, so I advocate that contemporary poets should at least understand one of the world's major foreign languages in order to comprehend world culture. My inspiration for traveling to South America is that crossing borders requires traveling. A poet must travel to the back of the earth at least once. Only when we see two hundred different cultures can we understand this world.

When you attend these festivals, what do you carry back with you—memories, emotions, or experiences that influence your writing?

Every time I visit a poetry festival, I also delve into a culture. This will have a dual impact on my thinking and content. Every time I visit a poetry festival, I delve into a culture and write down my feelings about it. The poetry collection I am currently creating is' Songs of the Earth ', and every country I visit is one of its albums. When I visited Kyrgyzstan, I wrote 'Kyrgyzstan Rhapsody'. I wrote "Love in Istanbul" when I attended Homer International Poetry Festival in Türkiye. When I participated in the Medellin International Poetry Festival in Colombia, I wrote 'Medellin: Heaven on the Back of the Earth'. I wrote 'Song of the Earth' when I participated in the World Poetry Festival in Venezuela. I wrote 'Faith Under the Khalifa Tower' while attending the Silk Road International Poetry Festival in Dubai. I will visit Paris, France in September and write 'The Romance of Paris'. I will visit Yakut, Russia in October and write 'Russian Snow Fairy Tales'. These cultures will feel poetic through my eyes and then write poetry through my hands. Of course, these images will also enter my novels, scripts, and essays.

Are there particular places or moments from your travels that have left a lasting impression on your poetry?

Every place will leave a unique and profound impression. The Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, I always go there because it was a witness to the conquest in 1453, and the history of the East and West is forever changed because of it. In Medellin, with Fernando Rendon, I truly realized the world poetry movement and became the coordinator of Asia. In Venezuela, on the far side of the earth, one can understand that the earth is a circular sphere. The United States has the American Dream, China has the Chinese Dream, but there is the world dream there. I want to share the most memorable event, which is my magical connection with Homer. I rolled my glasses into the Aegean Sea while attending the Homer International Poetry Festival on Bozcaada Island across from Troy in 2023. At that time, I thought I would never be able to find my glasses again, so they comforted me that Homer, who was blind, borrowed them. It's amazing that in 2024, Nurduran Duman told me that my glasses had been retrieved and she decided to give them to Bozcaada museum where they would be preserved forever. The great poetry movement I advocate originates from epic poetry. Homer lent me his eyes for three thousand years, and I think this is a miracle.

How do you experience the interaction between local audiences and your work? Do these encounters change the way you write?

When I was in Istanbul, I held a number of recitations to promote my collection of Turkish poetry, Listening to the Heartbeat of the World in Turkish, including one song, "I always see my mother when she was 12 years old." I read it with Nurduran Dumen, and we couldn't help but cry. The audience always cried. Later, they all bought this collection of poetry and told me to buy clothes for my mother. I recited the 'Great Compassion Dance' in Medellin, and many people were also infected by the power of sadness. They said every recitation must include this poem. In the town of Caldas, an old woman told me that she was moved by my poetry after listening to my recitation. She said the name of this town is "Tears in the Sky", and I will write a poem for it later. I found a lively American rhythm while dancing at a party in Caracas. I write poetry everywhere, and this latest collection of poems is' Songs of the Earth '. When I was traveling around the world, my epic of the Eurasian continent was also being enriched, and I want to publish a second volume in a few years.

As an author, editor, artist, and screenwriter, do your travels influence all aspects of your creative work, or mostly your poetry?

These trips had a comprehensive impact on me, as they first changed my way of thinking. I would like to explain the meaning of my pen name here. 'Cao' is an ancient Eastern surname with a history of five thousand years. It is a descendant of the Fire God Zhurong and represents Eastern tradition; Shui "means" Who "in English and is a theme pursued by Western philosophy. It is written on Greek temples:" O man, know thyself”. 'Who' means to become anyone, so I think writers should be able to write any genre. As a poet, I have created 10 works including "Epic of the Eurasian Continent," "Flower of the Empire," and "Song of the Tower of Heaven," as well as 40 unpublished works; As a novelist, I have published 10 books including "The Secret History of Kunlun", "The Peak of Babel", and "The Red Detachment of Women"; As a screenwriter, I have created over 100 film and television scripts, including "Peacock King," "Kunlun Mythology," and "Sun City; As a translator, I have translated seven books including "The Footsteps of Istanbul," "The Song of the Republic," and "The Golden Bird in the Sun; In addition, I have also created 18 fairy tales such as "Snow Leopard Prince", "Kekexili Animal Kingdom", and "Three Rivers Source National Park Picture Book Stories"; Five collections of essays, including "Journey to Kunlun"; Three theoretical works, including "The Great Poetics"; More than 100 poetry films, including 'The Great Dance of Sorrow'. So I told them that I walk on eight legs: poetry, novels, drama, translation, fairy tales, prose, theory, poetry, and film. For me, the essence of literature and art is the same, and these forms can all be transformed into each other. Of course, there is also editing work. I have established columns for international poets in publications such as "Great Poetry Magazine," "Global Poets," "World Poetry," "World Poetry Circle," "International Poets," and "Mountain Wind," introducing international poets to China. Currently, Fernando Rendon and Qiao Damo are editing a book titled 'Nuclear Explosion - World Poetry Movement, Beijing Poetry School: Chinese Postmodernism Movement, Great Poetry Movement'. These three movements share the same goal, with each school selecting 12 representative poets as a result of global poet exchanges.

Do you feel that poetry has a unique ability to connect people across cultures? Could you share an example from your experiences?

Poetry is the most sensitive art form that connects different cultures, as it is the highest form of language. My epic of the Eurasia is about telling the common history of humanity. Humanity originated from the same place and formed seven ancient civilization centers in ancient Asia, Europe, and Africa. From Babylon to Canaan, Egypt, and Greece to Persia, India, and China, each civilization has made revolutionary contributions to human civilization at different times. Every ancient civilization in the world, including Chinese civilization, should intervene in this sense in order to integrate into modern society. We were originally the same human race, with the same seeds of civilization, but took different paths. Now we need to trace the common cultural genes from our roots, so that we can integrate into one. So this poetry collection will be translated into multiple languages, and the English version will soon be published by Australian Multicultural Press, with American poet George Wallace as the translator and Australian poet VO THI NHU MAI as the editor. The Arabic version translated by ASHRAF ABOUL-YAZID and the Italian version translated by Lamberto Garzia will also be published in October this year, and there are multiple languages in translation. These are the reactions I have caused when participating in different poetry festivals. Yellow, white, and black people share 99.9% of their genes, so their emotions are completely the same. Good poetry will make them cry, which is the foundation of the human community. Poetry will change your view of a country. Let me take Türkiye as an example. Before I arrived in Istanbul, I thought Türkiye was a chaotic country, but when I arrived there, I found how civilized it was. On my way to the premiere of 'Listening to the Heartbeat of the World in Istanbul', I went to the ATM to withdraw 3000 lira, but the machine didn't spit out the money for a long time, so I left. After walking far away, someone suddenly shouted, 'Whose money is this?' Someone pointed at me and ran over to give me my money. This event has completely changed my view of Türkiye. I have visited Istanbul five times, and each time I will try to understand the image of the once central Eurasian continent.

Biography of Cao Shui

Cao Shui（Chinese: 曹谁;pinyin: Cáo Shuí), also Shawn Cao (born in Jun 5, 1982), is a Chinese poet, novelist, screenwriter and translator. He is a representative figure of Chinese Contemporary Literature. He leads the Great Poetry Movement, Poetry Film Movement and Dramatizing Fiction Movement. In his “Manifesto of Great Poetry”, he aims to integrate sacred and secular cultures, oriental and occidental cultures, ancient and modern cultures in Chinese literature. In 2008, he resigned from a newspaper and traveled around Tibet and Xinjiang, which is the center of Eurasia or the World in his view. His novels Secret of Heaven trilogy tells the whole developing history of human civilization. His most notable works includes Epic of Eurasia, the already mentioned trilogy and King Peacock (TV series). In his works, he extracts elements of various ancient human civilizations, from Babylon to the west to Judea, Egypt, Greece, to the east to Persia, India, China, and uses these elements to reconstruct a new Utopian human homeland, which always described as Eurasia, the Top of the Tower of Babel or Kunlun Mountains (Heaven Mountains). So far fourty books of Cao Shui have been published, including ten poem collections, four essay collections, ten novels, twenty fairy tales, four translations and one hundred episodes TV series and films. He has won more than 50 literary awards worldwide, including the 1st Chinese Young Poet Award, the 4th Cao Yu Cup Drama Award, the Apollo Dionysus Award of the 8th Italian Rome International Academy of Contemporary Poetry and Art Award, the 12th Russian Golden Knight Award, and the Top Ten Public Figures of the 5th Chinese Poetry Spring Festival Gala, etc. His works have been translated into 30 languages, including English, Italian, Spanish, French, German, Swedish, Portuguese, Danish, Polish, Russian, Hungarian, Croatian, Slovenian, Turkish, Arabic, Japanese, Korean, Hindi, Nepali, Vietnamese, Greek, Bengali, Kazakh, Irish, Serbian, Kyrgyz, Albanian, etc. He has been invited to participate in the 30th Medellin International Poetry Festival, the 26th Havana International Poetry Festival, the 14th Kritya International Poetry Festival in India and the 4th Qinghai Lake International Poetry Festival. He is a member of China Writers Association, China Film Association and China Poetry Society. He is also chief editor of Great Poetry, deputy editor in chief of World Poetry, member of China Writers’ Association, Asian Coordinator of World Poetry Movement, Chinese Representative of BRICS Writers Association, secretary general of Boao International Poetry Festival, executive president of the Silk Road International Poetry Festival and Chairman of Beijing International Poetry Film Festival. Currently he lives in Beijing, and works as a professional writer, translator and screenwriter.

Brief Biography of Cao Shui

Cao Shui, also Shawn Cao (born in Jun 5, 1982), is a Chinese poet, novelist, screenwriter and translator. He is a representative figure of Chinese Contemporary Literature. He leads the Great Poetry Movement. His most notable works includes Epic of Eurasia, the already mentioned trilogy and King Peacock (TV series). So far 48 books of Cao Shui have been published, including 10 poem collections, 5 essay collections, 10 novels, 4 translations, 18 fairy tales and 100 episodes TV series and films. He has won more than 80 literary awards worldwide. His works have been translated into 30 languages. He is also chief editor of Great Poetry, deputy editor in chief of World Poetry, Asian coordinator of World Poetry Movement, coordinator of BRICS Writers Association, executive president of the Silk Road International Poetry Festival, Chairman of Beijing International Poetry Film Festival. Currently he lives in Beijing, and works as a professional writer and screenwriter.